The eatliest "scholar" was Hermann Samuel Reimarus (1694–1768) in the 18th century who explicitly rejected the traditional understanding that the Gospels were written by their acclaimed authors. As is a common practice amongst ALL historians , they take the earliest historical references as authority so is the case here. I believe the first Christian Fathers that lived 50 to 200 years after the writing of the Gospels from the opinion of a scholar that lived 1600 years after the event.
raymond frantz
JoinedPosts by raymond frantz
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26
God or Satan?
by peacefulpete inthe theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).
the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.
here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.
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God or Satan?
by peacefulpete inthe theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).
the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.
here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.
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raymond frantz
Why do you believe this nonsense? Who is the earliest "scholar" to promote this preposterous idea that the writers of the Gospels were not the disciples of Christ? And was not the original post about Christ being Satan? -
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God or Satan?
by peacefulpete inthe theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).
the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.
here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.
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raymond frantz
Come on... the difference is obvious, John the disciple of Christ vs some unknown non Christian Jewish writer. Can you please elaborate more on the point you're trying make without the questionable references ? -
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God or Satan?
by peacefulpete inthe theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).
the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.
here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.
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raymond frantz
You are relying on the book Wisdom of Solomon to make the case that Jesus is Satan this is problematic as the book is not included in Jewish or Modern Bibles and for a good reason, the book was written by a Jewish scholar familiar with Greek culture, likely in Alexandria, Egypt, during the Hellenistic period (between the 2nd century BCE and 1st century, the book was written in Greek, not Hebrew, and contains sophisticated Greek philosophical ideas and expressions.
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Why Did God Create Us?
by Sea Breeze injesus is the creator god, but why did he create us?
what say you?.
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raymond frantz
First of all Jesus didn't create man but God with the aid of Jesus,
IF YOU DONT BELIEVE in the Bible many theories have been offered over the years: evolution, ancient alien theory, panspermia etc. In that line of thought we have no purpose and no meaning as previous mentioned.
IF YOU BELIEVE in the Bible then the answer is quoted in Genesis 1:26-27: “Then God said, ‘Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky...’ So God created mankind in His own image, in the image of God He created them; male and female He created them.”
God is a Creator and created a being in his image to look after this planet because He can, like He created angels before that.
Now if you want to dig deeper, there are many rabbit holes you can follow and the following is just pure speculation based in Scripture. I believe one of the reasons we were created is for some of us, only the ones that get raptured, to replace Satan and 1/3 of the angels that fell from Grace.
While the Bible doesn’t explicitly state that humanity was created to replace fallen angels, several verses suggest that believers in Christ will occupy significant roles in God’s eternal kingdom. These roles may parallel or even surpass those held by angels before the fall:
Judges of Angels:1 Corinthians 6:3: “Do you not know that we will judge angels?”
This verse implies that redeemed humanity will have authority over angels in God’s eternal kingdom. It suggests a reversal of the hierarchy seen in creation, where angels initially held a superior role to humans.
Heavenly Worshipers:Revelation 7:9-10 describes a great multitude of redeemed humans worshiping God before His throne, a role previously associated with angels (e.g., Isaiah 6:3).
Adopted as Sons and Daughters:Hebrews 1:14 explains that angels are “ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation,” indicating that humanity, as heirs of salvation, has a unique and exalted status in God’s plan.
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2952
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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raymond frantz
Yes he has been on Joe Rogan's show too
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2952
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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raymond frantz
Billy Carson is having a "Lloyd Evans" reaction online at the moment, he got smoked by a Christian scholar and because he didn't like the way the debate went he served everyone a cease and desist letter and then threatened a lawsuit in a different country...everybody is laughing silly😄
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New here
by AdamCzarnobay ini left the organization in 2017.. was in several congregations in the north west of england.
i just wanted to say thank you to all of you that have posted on here over the years, it really helped me to see the truth about the organization.
i lurked here for many years under an anonymous login and then finally plucked up the courage to write my disassociation letter.. adam.
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raymond frantz
Welcome on board, North West of England too here, if you want to meet or facetime PM me
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Defend Your Borders or Listen to the Watchtower?
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/dnoww-4jfao?si=ehzmc5-gxqukgn7q.
with ww3 on the horizon the watchtower is bringing out their best hits on the issue of neutrality and the latest instalment on jw.org with stephen lett has the theme " why ancient israelites were allowed to go to war but as a christian you can't " or to paraphrase for a 2024 audience " why the modern state of israel is allowed all the nuclear weapons to defend their borders but you as a western european or north american you aren't supposed to compliant against open border policies and uncontrolled illegal migration" isn't that the exact same rhetoric or is it my imagination?
so one of stephen lett's go to arguments is that christians do not take up arms because we don't live in ancient times where israelites had a mandate to occupy the holy land where as we gentile christians we don't.
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raymond frantz
@Duran
he Bible is clear there will be nation states in the Millennium:
Nations Will Exist to Worship the Lord
Revelation 21:24:
"The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it."
This verse describes the New Jerusalem but implies that nations and their leaders continue to exist, contributing their glory to God’s kingdom. It suggests a diversity of peoples and governance under Christ's rule.Isaiah 2:2-4:
"In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains... All nations will stream to it."
Nations are portrayed as distinct entities that come to worship God, reflecting their preserved identity and role.
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Defend Your Borders or Listen to the Watchtower?
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/dnoww-4jfao?si=ehzmc5-gxqukgn7q.
with ww3 on the horizon the watchtower is bringing out their best hits on the issue of neutrality and the latest instalment on jw.org with stephen lett has the theme " why ancient israelites were allowed to go to war but as a christian you can't " or to paraphrase for a 2024 audience " why the modern state of israel is allowed all the nuclear weapons to defend their borders but you as a western european or north american you aren't supposed to compliant against open border policies and uncontrolled illegal migration" isn't that the exact same rhetoric or is it my imagination?
so one of stephen lett's go to arguments is that christians do not take up arms because we don't live in ancient times where israelites had a mandate to occupy the holy land where as we gentile christians we don't.
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raymond frantz
Duran , I agree with you, the Antichrist is God's punishment for mankind nevertheless his purpose post tower of Babel has been a world of borders and distinct national identities. I find nothing with that. I prefer a world where people are allowed to be part of their local national entity with distinct language ,history and culture, the alternative is the current mess we experience at the moment